In this episode of The Propcast, Louisa speaks with Peter Gibbons, MD of Openn Negotiation and Jeffery Gray, Founder and CEO of PROPIC about what it takes to exit and IPO a real estate company. They discuss how to set your company up to be IPO ready, how exciting it is to be in the Proptech sector right now, and how to maintain resilience when working in a Proptech startup.
Click here to listen to this episode of the Propcast!
Keywords: proptech, AI, IPO, listing, public, exit, property, real estate, funding, VC, investors
Peter Gibbons, Openn Negotiation
Peter Gibbons has extensive experience in property investment banking, property development and financing and technology development. He has held senior roles in some of the world’s largest investment banks, including Macquarie Bank, Bankers Trust and Deutsche Bank, as well as Board roles at Landcorp, the Western Australian Football Commission, Silver Chain, and Chairman of the Bethanie Group.
About Openn Negotiation
Openn Negotiation is an Australian property technology company offering a proprietary cloud-based software platform to support real estate agents in selling property online with greater transparency. The Openn platform facilitates a negotiation process, featuring streamlined digital contracting and automated communication tools, which enhances a property transaction. The solution provides buyers with real-time feedback through their device on how much competition exists and where their price stands in the negotiation, resulting in an optimal sales outcome.
Jeffery Gray, PROPIC
Jeffery Gray the founder and CEO of Propic. He has extensive experience in property technology, data and AI. Jeffery was a former executive of Domain Group, Aristocrat, Lexis Nexis and numerous other data and technology companies. After a successful exit from a prior start up, he be came a Real Estate agent for a period, prior to joining Domain Group. As such has first hand
experience with the pain points, challenges and opportunities that the Real Estate vertical has.
Propic is an Australian based data and AI company that delivers conversational AI and data solutions to residential real estate agents spanning, Sales, Property Management and Project Marketing, House and Land and Build to Rent Propic’s conversational AI (Enliven AI) serves consumers 24/7 enabling its customers to scale with out people and in real time. ReVeal AI is a data platform that tracks every property and listing in australia, ingests customer data and its algorithms works out who has the highest propensity to transact in the future. The agent app tells and agent, who to call, when and most importantly why, all in natural language.
Louisa started her career in property working at a well-known estate agency in London. Realising her people skills, she moved over to Lloyd May to pursue a career in recruitment. She now is a Director at LMRE, who are a specialist recruitment firm driven by PropTech and recruitment professionals, and Louisa oversees their 5 core areas. Louisa co-founded LMRE and provides a constructive recruitment platform to the new disruptors in real estate. Louisa is also on the board of Directors at UK PropTech Association (UKPA).
LMRE believe there is a better way to recruit. LMRE focus on a more comprehensive, client led focus delivering exceptional talent to the place at the time. They are passionate about the industry and passionate about people’s careers. LMRE spend time with each client to become and an extension of the business, and their transparency and core values help them grow with the sector. LMRE simplify recruitment and innovate with our clients and evolve the people driven, PropTech community.
Openn Negotiation https://www.openn.com.au/
REACH Australia https://nar-reach.com/
Domain Group https://www.domain.com.au/group/
Second Century Venues https://www.scv.vc/
National Association of Realtors https://www.nar.realtor/
MRI Group https://www.mrisoftware.com/
Louisa: Today on the Propcast, we will be speaking about IPO’s and exits with our Aussie guests, Peter Gibbons, MD of Openn Negotiation and Jeffery Gray CEO of PROPIC. So welcome to the show guys.
Peter: Thanks so much for having us. Great to be here.
Louisa: For everyone listening, today on the show we’ll be exploring what Openn Negotiation and PROPIC property companies do, the value in the real estate market, what it’s really like IP and the challenges it comes with, but obviously the good things as well. Tips on how to exit and also what they’re boasting in the market because obviously, lots of listeners are in north America, in APAC and Europe, but we all looking at expanding. We’re looking at launching. So it’s good to know what else is happening out there?
And I thought on today’s show I’d let our guests tell you about themselves and their journeys, as after reading their impressive bios this morning, I thought they were way better placed to describe their careers to date.
So, Peter, why do you start. Tell us about your journey becoming MD of Openn Negotiation. You’ve done investment banking; you’ve been known in the football space.
And now, why prop tech for you?
Peter: Yeah, look, my journey’s been a fantastic one with many twists and turns, but yes, probably investment banking was my discipline. My background.
I’ve taken on a lot of board roles in areas of interest for me. One of those was football. So, I was a commissioner on the football commission, but really tech was probably a great love of mine.
And that’s how I fell into the tech space. And since then, it’s been, you know, we’ve been up and running six years now. We’re now and ASX listed company and its onwards and upwards from here.
Louisa: For our audience listening in, who haven’t heard of Openn Negotiation yet. What does your product do?
And obviously it was founded Australia. Where’s your coverage?
Peter: Yeah, absolutely. So, look, we started with a problem as all good start-ups do. Our problem – my founding partners were real estate agents who I wanted to connect with to understand what was the industry issue.
The issue that they came up with, or their greatest issue was around transparency in the sales process. And what we really mean by that is they always gave the example, whenever they were selling a property by what we call private treaty, but the offer and acceptance the traditional process around the world, that have buyers come to them, say, look, “I like the property, how much do I need to offer?”
Under private treaty, the response was “I can’t tell you, but put in your best offer and we’ll see how you go”. Invariably, that ends up in one or two places and neither of them particularly good. It’s either “congratulations you’ve purchased the property” and you’re immediately thinking, “well, gosh, if I overpaid for this, I didn’t know where to put in my offer” or alternately and probably worse is where the agent goes back and says, “sorry, you missed out on the property. It went for $800,000” and the buyer’s like, “I would have paid that, or I would’ve paid more, but you didn’t tell me what I needed to pay”. So, they walk away angry at the agent, the sellers left money on the table and nobody’s happy.
So that’s what we took on as our challenge. And we added a transparent platform to undertake transactions in real estate that created transparency.
Louisa: Beautiful. You and Jeff, you guys know each other through the REACH program out in Australia way? How did you both get involved in that?
Maybe Jeff, I think you said that they originally approached you, which is what a lot of people dream of in the investment space.
Jeff: Yeah, it was nice that they, no pun intended, reached out to us. We were certainly familiar with the program. I think we were very focused on our business and doing what we’re doing.
So, it was nice to be contacted, and part of our journey has definitely been, quite a number of contacts, particularly from the US that reaching out and wanting to know more about the company, potential investors, VC funds, etc. So, there’s clearly a lot of interest.
And I think one of the fortunate things we have in Australia is we are quite advanced in terms of the technology we’re using this vertical. So, we certainly, and Peter will probably attest to the same thing, there’s probably a contact every two or three months from potential investors, from the US. So, they are clearly watching what’s happening with technology in PropTech, in Australia.
It was great to be contacted. I knew other companies that were involved in the program, so it made sense that we participated and Peter and I met through the program.
Louisa: You mentioned about interest in the space. Your background is completely varied within AI to more on the product.
What does PROPIC do, for the audience? And it’s obviously in the automation space, but if you just explain a little bit more, that’d be super helpful.
Jeff: We do two things. And really it comes from Google, right? So, Google has got a mantra which is intent beats identity, and immediacy trump’s brand.
And a bit like Peter, we focused on two problems the industry was having. You’ve got exponential rise of consumer expectations. We now live in a world of immediacy and, why can’t real estate businesses serve their customers 24/7 in real time?
And the second thing was the industry is sitting on hugely valuable data, but it’s sitting in property management systems and CRM systems and they can’t do anything with it on scale. And when we talk about scale, we think about scale across an entire country.
So, what does PROPIC do? We do two things. We use conversational AI to enable our customers to serve their customers in real time, 24/7 across multiple channels, email portal, inquiries, web SMS, Facebook messenger, et cetera.
And then the second thing we do is we mine their data, combine it with our data, and we have algorithms that work out, which consumers that they know, and properties that they know have the highest propensity to transact in the future. And we drive that to an agent, to be able to speak to the right person at the right time.
And the system tells an agent who they need to call, when they need to call, and why they need to make that call.
Louisa: Beautiful. So, it’s just putting the people first.
A lot of people are very scared about AI. But it makes the whole fragmented process, a lot more simpler and quicker, which I know lots of us are looking for.
Jeff: We referred to it as augmented AI, right? So, it’s augmenting artificial intelligence with people and letting AI do what it does best. So, if a consumer inquires acquires on a property at 10 o’clock at night or 11 o’clock at night, and, 80% of all consumer inquiries for real estate happen out of work hours. 80%.
So, is an agent really going to respond within a second at 11 o’clock at night? No. So let AI do that, but let human agents, people, do what they do best. That is the human connection. So, we just make agents super, super efficient
Louisa: You mentioned US investors are interested in what’s happening in the Australia market, is that because your products are easy to replicate in different markets on your platforms?
Or what do you think the big attraction is? Other than obviously the growing tech scene.
Jeff: Forbes has estimated by 2025, 95% of all consumer interactions are going to be supported by AI technology. Residential real estate is the largest asset class in the word. And you look at it as a vertical, it is well behind any other consumer facing vertical, arguably in the world. Right?
So, VCs and investors in America are hugely cognisant of the billions and billions of dollars that have been invested in artificial intelligence. They’re looking at this, the largest asset class in the word, and they’re looking at a, vertical that is, arguably a decade behind every other consumer facing vertical.
So they’re scouring the word, looking for technology companies that are investing in artificial intelligence. It is the next generation of technology and that’s why they’re reaching out.
Louisa: Well, a great space to be in then.
Peter, going back to you, you recently IPO’d, was it a few months ago?
Massive congratulations. How did you get up to that point? Lots of our audience listening in are founders, these people dream of IPOing. How did you get to that point? And what’s changed since you IPO?
Peter: We had initially raised capital. We did a seed round; we did a Series A round. Once we had proof of process that people were keen to use the platform it was then all about scale. So, the best way for us to scale and take advantage is not just here in Australia and New Zealand, where we currently operate. But, along with Jeff, we’re getting a lot of interest out of North America.
In fact, we’ve actually just been asked into the REACH program in Canada and we’re running a pilot in Connecticut. And like Jeff we’ve been invited into their programs. So, for us, the IPO was all about, we’ve got these incredible opportunities in front of us now. They’re live, what’s the quickest way for us to action that? So, there’s positives and negatives to being listed. For us it was overwhelmingly a positive on balance, particularly around securing the funding so that we don’t need to worry about funding now in terms of our runway, but more importantly, we’ve got a very clear roadmap that needed funding to execute it.
In this way, we’ve got the ability now, not only to have those funds upfront and in our bank account and now being used wisely, but also being a listed company, it then creates a platform to enable future raising so placements, et cetera. So, our ability to raise money quickly as we identify and capitalise on opportunities.
That’s what the listing’s provided us.
Louisa: Beautiful. Any tips for the audience who want to get to the IPO stage? Is there like a certain point where you have to gear your business up to or structures you need to put in place?
JG: It’s a good question because there is. The reality is, being a listed entity comes with a whole layer of governance and compliance that is overwhelming.
We’re pretty lucky in that, with an investment banking background I’m all about compliance and governance. We ran a pretty tight ship anyway, and we ran ourselves in a structure that allowed us to morph into a listed company fairly simply, but I would say don’t, don’t underestimate that level of compliance and governance that is required, which of course requires money as well to ensure that you can do that.
So, part of the raising, you need to be cognisant that it will cost more to run your business. That said, as I say, there are benefits. For example, we had seed investors, Series A investors who backed us at a time when we were an idea, So, to be able to reward them with liquidity has meant a lot to me personally, because they were the ones who backed us and you always liked to give back. I think you need to be very cognisant when you’re the custodian of other people’s money to take that very seriously. So, the listing has also provided us the ability for everyday investors getting involved in the business. So that for us is pretty exciting, when investors buy into the roadmap and the dream and where we’re going, small investors can get involved. It’s just not for the big end of town.
Louisa: Awesome. And, Jeffery you’ve had a previous successful exit as well.
You haven’t just been in PropTech your whole life. Not many people have. Tell us a bit more about your experience of the previous businesses and exiting.
Jeff: Yeah, I’ve been in technology and really data driven businesses. So, LexisNexis, which is one of the largest content aggregators in the word, gambling, technology, running casinos, et cetera. And, the last exit I had, we built, this is back in 2010s, and it was all in the cloud. That was very much in the infancy of the cloud. We built a gaming loyalty system and we’re the first company in Australia introduced social gaming into Australia.
We use data and algorithms to automate loyalty programs in the gaming industry. I think the exit there was knowing when the time is right for me, it was a vertical that I had lost interest in. For me personally, it was the right time, right decision to exit that point. The businesses continue to grow and scale, with new owners that were friends of mine. But it was the right thing for me to do. And I end up doing a tree change and I think I took about nine months off.
And then got bored, and I ended up getting into real estate because I got bored. I was living in a country town and there’s nothing to do except buy real estate. And there was an opportunity to buy a real estate business. So, I went and got my real estate license, got my license and approached the principle and said, “look, if I like it, I’ll buy by the business.”
Louisa: With no experience in real estate? That’s very, very, bold.
Jeff: Absolutely. I looked at it as an agent and having sat in the lounge room and done listing presentations and knocked on doors I was looking at how the industry operates and I was like, “oh my God, there is a better way than this”.
That led me into Domain Group when the deal fell over. Via the business, Domain approached me about joining their company and I sat on the executive leadership team of Domain, but that was ultimately the story that led into PROPIC.
Louisa: For our audience listening in, the PropTech space is growing. Lots more people are flooding into the same way, there’s so much more investment.
I often say that real estate experience is not necessarily needed in terms of roles, but just having that balance in the company or people from, Peter you’re from investment banking, it’s having people from finance, it’s having people from different tech areas, having people from real estate, it’s having people from customer service.
We talked about automation, but you still need people from hospitality and how to instil that personal touch. Would you say it’s an easy space to get into from other sectors?
Peter: Yeah, Jeff touched on it earlier and it is quite amazing.
It’s probably the largest industry or market in the word. And if you compare it to other markets. I laughed that 10 years ago if you said to somebody, “oh are you going to do all your banking transactions online?” They’d say “that’s ridiculous you’ve got to go to a branch and that’s how you bank”. Now, I can’t remember the last time I went into the bank.
To me real estate is that last great bastion. It is a great industry to be in, but there’s so many areas for improvement, and that improvement is all about customer journey. So, the buyer and seller journey, how do we make their lives easier?
And the key conduit to that is help out the agents. And that’s exactly what we’re doing.
Louisa: Awesome. Jeff, is there anything you’d like to add to that?
Jeff: For anyone coming into the industry, if I look at our team, we’ve brought best and the brightest. So, if I look at our data science and data engineering team, people coming out of Commonwealth Bank, coming out of tier one consulting firms.
Our CTO is literally a rocket scientist and designed the New South Wales data lake. But then my CPO is second generation in the industry. And, I do think that the devil is always in the detail. And so, I think you need to be able to blend expertise from other verticals. Technical skills, but also have an inherent understanding of the industry and it is still, and will be for some time for the foreseeable future, very much a people driven business. So how can you make those human interaction touch points more efficient, more effective, and how do you take away all the peripheral noise and improve the customer experience? So, I think they’re the key things that I would suggest, but you’ve got to blend. I think you have to have domain knowledge with expertise that is outside real estate.
Louisa: Yeah. Agreed. Well, I think to help out with the innovation, just different ways of thinking, which I’ve definitely seen, the consultancies and global real estate agencies are hiring their digitalisation innovation teams from honestly all over, which is refreshing to see.
We’ve spoken about exits, we talked about IPO’s and there’s been a lot more M&A’s happen in the market. HqO acquiring Office App, VTS acquiring Lane, and obviously Rise Buildings earlier this year. Within the APAC are you seeing consolidation in the market? What’s happening to your side of the world?
Peter: Yeah, I think aggregation is always a logical part of the journey.
PropTech is still an immature industry from that perspective. I think we are starting to get to a critical size whereby there are interests from larger plays around amalgamation. There’s certainly has been some M&A activity in the industry. And also coupling up larger players in the industry, taking a stake in smaller players in the industry.
And I guess that’s a hedging bet type strategy whereby a number of the larger players are taking interesting in varying areas. I guess that’s the beauty of PropTech. It’s such a wide and interesting industry. It’s everything from the transactional piece, which is the part that we’re involved in. Jeff is very much around the data piece and providing information to make a reason decision. So, investment can be across a wide spectrum, which is within the umbrella that is called Proptech.
Louisa: Has there been any M&A’s on your side of the word as well across any of the verticals you’ve seen?
JG: Yeah, we’re starting to see groups that are amalgamating.
But as I say, there has been probably fewer straight buyouts. Although there are some, it’s been probably more investment into up-and-coming Proptechs. By larger groups.
Louisa: Since you’ve both entered this space, what are the major changes you’ve seen in the market? And this could be in terms of adoption and uptake of clients and people taking this seriously and seeing this as a proper asset class?
Are you seeing clients as receptive? Are you guys still in lock down now? For a lot of businesses that has slowed things down, especially obviously in the rental space, but what are the major trends and shifts you’ve seen?
Jeff: Certainly, our business, we’ve got triple digit growth, in our business and have had throughout COVID. Because we touch both project marketing on new buildings that are being built. We use conversational AI to help sell those. We do establish market. We did property management.
Because we touch so many facets of real estate there’s been two approaches, one COVID has accelerated in the minds of our customers, one, they need to improve the customer experience. And then two, when they’re struggling for growth, because they’re in lockdown and they wanting to understand the value of their data and how can they extract value out of it it just so happens that we’re well-positioned to provide solutions.
So, I think COVID has, certainly in the market leaders, our customers, some of the leading brands in Australia. In fact, the leading brands in Australia. They’ve doubled down, because they know that the status quo, even post COVID, it’s just not going to be the same. And they’re prepared to make investments in the next generation of technology.
It’s like the bell curve of all adoption, right? The innovators, the early adopters will always get the disproportionate commercial benefit as a result. So that’s what we’re seeing. So, if anything, COVID has actually accelerated our business, obviously not what we want as a motivator, but the consequences of COVID and all the implications on the industry as resulted in the market leaders, looking to innovate and do different things, differently.
Peter: I can only reiterate, our experiences mirrored Jeff’s in that what COVID has done is made agents think differently. So, they’ve worked out previously, five, six years ago when we’re speaking to agents, they’d say, “we absolutely love what your platform does, but we’re happy doing what we do now”.
So COVID was a bit of a wakeup call to maybe there are other ways of doing things that aren’t the traditional way that we’ve undertaken it. So, agents have really embraced it from that perspective because a) they either had time on their hands to learn about new things, and b) they had to come up with solutions that they probably haven’t thought of before.
So technologies like Open and like PROPICS were probably well-timed. I joke that we’re a five-year overnight success. People don’t quite understand that it takes a lot to get to this point, but the reality is our timing has been good.
Louisa: Yeah, five years I’m sure probably felt like about 15 years, the amount of work you actually put into it. Most people laugh that you’re an employee you last about two to three years, and then he started to get burnt out. But then for some reason, get involved in another start-up as if they haven’t gone through enough. It’s almost like good stress. It’s like an addiction.
Jeff: Sucker for punishment. That’s what I keep on reminding myself.
Louisa: When will we learn? Thank you both for answering all those questions, and conveying your insights into exits and IPO’s. Now we’ll come to the final part, which is the LMRE part. So, if you take it in turns to talk us through, L – one lessons learned, M – mention anyone or products you’d like to give a shout out to. You already gave a shout out to REACH so maybe, someone or another business. And R is what’s the most rewarding aspect of working in PropTech, and hopefully not the stress we are all addicted to, and E what are you most excited about in terms of the feature of this space?
Peter: Happy to kick off. Lessons learned is all about resilience to me. I mean, you start with a starry eyed, bright idea and you think everyone’s going to get it. And it’s all going to fall into place. You have to just have that mindset and attitude that if you genuinely believe in what you’re doing, don’t be discouraged when you go and do pitching presentations for funds or for clients or whatnot.
Not everybody’s going to say yes and not everybody’s going to get it as quickly as clearly as it is in your mind. So, my biggest lesson has probably been around how resilient you need to be. If you can build that, the energy’s there and we laugh about with suckers for punishment, but so many of my staff say to me, and again, the same experience with Jeff, we’ve brought on some very clever people.
And that’s all been about people who say, “look, I want something that gets me excited and gets me jumping out of bed in the morning”. And I think that’s probably what the Proptech industry can offer. But you need to have a thick skin and you need to be resilient.
Louisa: I can echo that. Right onto the next question.
Peter: In terms of shadows, we have so many groups that we now partner with. If I mentioned one or two, I’ll probably upset the others. I probably would want to throw out a special thanks to REACH.
They’ve been incredible for us. To say we’re in the Australian accelerator program. We’re now in the Canadian accelerator program. Just their ability to connect us, particularly with our North American pilots. Connect us in to the people we need to be speaking to, and giving us that credibility that, “gosh, if, REACH and the National Association of Realtors, Second Century Ventures are backing these guys in there’s something there.”
It’s like having the fancy business card.
Louisa: Jeff, is there anyone you’d like to give a shoutout to?
Jeff: Yeah, I can go with REACH, we’ve got a lot of value of it, out of the program. I think also Ash from Active Pipe, Australian based company growing rapidly America. Ash and I have known each other since, my time at Domain Group when I ran all of the tech and data businesses there.He’s always been someone I’ve been able to pick up the phone to. He’s got a lot of success and a lot of bruises on the way through. So, his counsel at times when we’ve spoken has been valuable. And I think the fact that you can have Founders, Australia is a relatively small market, and the fact that you can have Founders that collaborate.
And the other one is a MRI where we’ve done a partnership with the MRI Group, based out of America. They saw PROPIC very early, before we were doing anything in property management and they’ve got a massive market share and in Australia and property management in the US and I think the operate in about 170 countries. I think Peter alluded to it early, you’re going to get a lot of nos, particularly when you’ve literally got concepts and ideas, and then you’re going to get people who see the potential.
I think that the people like Ash, MRI who have been with us on the journey for the last really 12 months or so. So, we’re really excited about that. So, I think there are some really genuine people in this industry, which is fantastic.
And it’s a matter of just trying to hook up with the people that are going to support what you’re doing. But ultimately it comes down to market fit and if people buy your product and are happy to refer your product and you’re solving real problems, then you probably got a viable business.
Louisa: MRI, what a client. I guess once you open up past the MRI, I mean, how many businesses are in that? And they just keep going by buying. So, some nice little case studies you guys have. I’ve heard very good things about ActivePipe and Ash as well, in the market. So, I agree. There’s nice in this community, whether you’re in Australia, wherever you’re in Austin. It’s a good group of people. It’s a supportive group of people and I don’t know what it’s like another other industries, but I love most people that I meet at these events and conferences
Jeff: I think, part of it too is being authentic, and being ethical, right?
And, and if you build a reputation of doing smart things, operating in ethical ways that are authentic. There is a lot of people in this industry that will support you.
Louisa: Yeah, I agreed with that. Right. We’re coming to that final two questions. It’s the rewarding part. And what you most excited about and Peter, you were just about to say something, sorry about that.
Peter: I’m really just mirroring these comments are really relevant because being a Founder is not easy. But it’s incredibly rewarding. And Ash is a bit of a luminary in my mind because to have somebody with that level of success sho’s so willing to give of his time, and of his advice. I mentioned that you need to be resilient. I think there’s almost an obligation on Founders. If you can help others avoid some of the pitfalls that we’ve gone into, I think that’s a great thing and that’s the giving back and, and I think there’s not a better example of that than Ash. His counselling to us on the way through has been incredibly valuable.
Louisa: So, we’ll go into our final question. What are you both most excited about? And Jeff, you know, feel free to go ahead.
Jeff: We were just in the infancy of what is possible. If I think about the things that we’re thinking about, which is a digital twin of every single property in the world and the ability for consumers to interact with those digital twins, we are literally the start of what is truly possible.
I just look at, the internet of things, right? So, there’s a company in Australia called Fleet. They putting shoe boxes, satellites into space, the size of the shoe box that connecting vineyards and connecting the ocean, connecting livestock and the cost of doing it is just plummeting.
The way we think about the world and what we’re doing right now, we’re just scratching the surface. We are scratching the surface as to what it will look like in the future, how assets will be managed, how people will interact and transact with property, how humans and artificial intelligence will work together around property transactions.
It is only the beginning. And that’s what excites me.
Louisa: Thank you very much that, and Peter, what are you most excited about?
Peter: I think just captured it well. To me, when do you get the opportunity to get involved with something that is just in its infancy and knowing that the work you’re doing can really shape the future of how the property industry will work, how it will integrate with other industries and literally to be at that part of creating a future. That rarely happens.
And then throw on top of that it’s happening in a market that’s the largest market in the word. It’s hard not to get excited about that because it’s fascinating that how one thing leads to another. Jeff and I with PROPIC and Open, we’ve got a bit of an integration going on at the moment that then starts triggering other ideas.
Well, if that works, can we go and do this? The ability to let your mind run free, and then knowing that you’ve then got the ability to make that a physical thing. And to guide and form where the market’s going. You probably hear the excitement. It’s a pretty cool place to be.
Louisa: Yeah. I agree with that. I’ve just come back from obviously a month; I call it a tour. Going from event to event then in the US and I haven’t seen some of my clients in person for two years for obvious reasons. And when I first spoke to them, they were about 10-20 people.
And now they’re at like, about 150 people, that products that are developed so much, they grown to different countries and it’s just, I completely agree. It’s so exciting. Then I hear it from their client’s perspective saying, look, they’ve really helped us out here. Obviously, it wasn’t perfect at the beginning, but we’re getting there and it.
It’s just the space is really evolving, so yeah. I think we’re all very blessed to be in this great space.
Now look guys, it’s bloody late for you. I would like to thank you both for joining me on the Propcast. We’ll be sharing details of Pete and Jeff and Open and PROPIC for you guys to check out.
But I would like to say thank you again for joining me on the Propcast, and I’m looking forward to catching up with you after the show.
Peter: Absolute pleasure. We’ll look forward to updating you of both company successes.
Jeff: Thank you very much for your time. Great to be on the show.