Real Estate Investment Management Tech Association with Naqash Tahir and Imran Nasir

In this episode The Propcast talks to Naqash Tahir and Imran Nasir about Real Estate Investment Management Tech Association.

Today’s interview is about real estate investment management technology. Naqash do you want to kick us off with how you and Imran started REIMtech? What is ReimTech for those listeners who aren’t familiar, and who is part of it?

Naqash 

So okay, it was about four years ago, me and our CEO asked to meet and have a catch up and she mentioned Naqash. I had a catch up with La Salle system discussions, but most of the time was spent on talking technology. So they thought it would be a good idea for us two to meet and see if we can share something together and maybe, it will help us with our projects and stuff like that. I said, “Okay, that’s a good idea.” So we had about a half an hour catch up, and we really hit it off, honestly. And me and Imran were facing similar issues, similar products in a market similar kind of people coming in and pitching to us. So we said, okay you know what, it might be a good idea to just meet up. So currently Imran and his boss at the time, he did not need him for lunch so we went to lunch and we discussed in detail actually how we all can benefit from it, I have some links and contacts in real estate and Imran also has, why don’t we try to really start something in that aspect. So it just really kicked off after that.

I think we spent about two months just reaching out to our contacts, the first meeting Imran hosted a date at La Salle, we had about 10 people I believe, we only had a one hour meeting. And then now four years after we have 30 plus members and companies, 40 plus active people participating in it. And we have meetings run for three hours, and you’ve been to a few meetings and we always run out of time because a lot of roundtable discussions, everyone chips in, it’s very open and transparent. One of the guys that can joined us recently, he said, “I’m really surprised and shocked at how open and transparent you guys are with each other. It’s really refreshing for our industry, and we really like it and they really enjoyed it. So I think that’s what was unique about REIMtech, I would say, is we really open to showcase our failures and also tremendous successes. So, I mean, I think Imran can talk about what is the goal here and what we’re trying to do in the future but that’s a bit of background and content.

Louisa 

Yes. So if I run in Boston management company fund, how does one join this  exclusive group? How does someone join your meetings? How do people hear about it?

Naqash 

Word of mouth, but I think when we start sharing I think that the stuff on LinkedIn, people start noticing more, I mean, recently every other meeting we have, we have three, four new people joined. Yes, they normally reach out I mean, I currently chair it, but in the past me in Imran have chaired it. So together, so I mean, either one of us or any member of the group, or the people can reach out and then they will reach out to us and we will basically include them into our group. I mean, we do have some questions, only making sure that they can participate, and they can give us time every quarter and stuff like that. But, I mean, I mean, also, we only accept the companies which are real estate, investment companies, we don’t get the property company or if is a consulting firm, etc. So it’s only really focused on for this for this group.

Louisa 

Yes, make sure I guess the group’s actually focused. so Imran what’s what would you say the main goal, the top three goals of this group is to summarize?

Imran 

Yes, I think the first goal is really is, is networking. And I think that’s what Naqash really alluded to was. I think there isn’t really from a real estate investment management In particular, from a UK perspective where both Naqash and I are based, there wasn’t really a kind of an industry body really, for us, for professionals who use technology at those organizations. So that was something that we really wanted to try and try and build especially as when Naqash and I met, which has actually he didn’t mention, it was over a curry. So I think a lot of great things start with a curry! Yes, we were talking about the same issues, we’d met the same people, we were dealing with the same software vendors, we had the same challenges. So it was really kind of to build that network, which was, I think, the primary goal. I think the second goal really was in terms of from because there was no real industry body and I think some of the big software vendors probably wouldn’t want to hear this but each of us was going back to them with our own issues and, and they really held the power. And it shouldn’t really be like that because we’re the clients. But what REIMtech has allowed us to do now is actually go back with one voice. And I think Naqash and myself and a few other investment firms, we’ve already reaped the benefits because there’s software that we’re all using that we’ve actually gone back now and said this is an issue that we’re all facing, and it’s actually led to that specific issue being resolved. And without us all going back as a collective, that will never happen. And I think the last thing really is, is just to have that joined up approach really, in terms of as an industry I think we’ll probably touch on it later in terms of some of the challenges we’re facing, but to actually join up, join the dots up and try and have a collective approach, I think in the long term as the industry is going to help everyone.

Louisa 

Yes, Naqash have you got anything else would you like to add ? Any fourth goal?

Naqash 

I think just exactly what Imran said, I think number one networking, number two, sharing the knowledge which are the number three, and have one voice to the market as Imran says. And fourth one we really want to go forward with that. I mean, it’s really how to drive innovation and really make a change how we work in real estate today. I think we have enough influence in our group that we can do it. I mean, there are a lot of things that we are thinking about, looking at data standards, how we can actually enforce a some  data standards we can come up with, or we can work with in an external group to create one and that can be adopted in the industry. So I think a lot of projects I think we can do going forward. And we will be looking to do that in the future.

Louisa 

Yes, I guess so say outside of your association, what do you reckon REIM can bring to the outside prop tech community, I guess, wherever it’s say start-ups, whether it’s  the software companies you Give your  feedback about,  what  sort of change they need to do their  products, but Imran, we have what would you say that REIM gives the outside prop tech community?

Imran 

I mean, I think one is in terms of if there’s a great idea, if it’s brought to that table, I mean, in terms of say, the UK real estate investment market, I mean, the Naqash may have the kind of percentage that is around that REIMtech table, but it’s a very high percentage in terms of you’ve got a lot of big players who are part of REIMtech. So if there’s great ideas, and it’s actually interesting, sometimes that prop tech firm doesn’t actually have to be at the meeting. I think if somebody’s seen something that has really taken their fancy, they will mention it in that meeting, and everyone’s there, kind of taking notes. I mean we follow Chatham rules so I think as Naqash said, I mean, it’s very, very open. And that’s why we I think, that’s why people yes and firms have enjoyed participating because there’s a lot of knowledge that you can gain as part of that, that you’d never hear if you weren’t part of that group. So if there’s a great solution out there, someone will mention it, or someone will take down the name and that prop tech firm will then get exposure that they may never have gotten otherwise.

Louisa 

Yes, well, I’ve seen that happen first-hand. I’ve been sat at some of your meetings and  see, wherever it’s been like Coyote or another  business pitching their product to you, and you’ve got about 30 CTOs around this table and  firing questions at the CEO. It’s quite something to watch. But it’s I guess, if ever there was a platform or a good platform them pitch to it’s quite something. What would you say, You guys must have very start-up support back to the pitching to pitching to you. Now everyone is looking to develop the perfect product, the perfect product doesn’t exist and God knows when it will. So what would you say Naqash this one will go to you, what would you say the biggest challenge facing real estate is now>? When I said that you guys had spoken about like unifying the dashboard, if I’m a start-up, I need to create a product? What would you say REIMtech is looking for?

Naqash 

The biggest challenge to us right now in the real estate industry and has been for a number of years is data, and data quality. I think our data frequency right now, we’re doing a cookie basis reporting, on a semi monthly basis, but still, I think, still not I think frequent enough. Our data quality, still not as good as compared to other industries, our integration and API, a lot of technologies that they talk about having an API and , being able to seamlessly connect, but when it comes to really, realistically, that doesn’t happen. So I think this is one of the biggest talent that we have currently in this state and I would advise, I think what I find sometimes a bit frustrating with working with some of the start-ups is that they have a very good product, but they don’t have the knowledge of real estate and how research work. So they might come to pitchers pitch to us and say this is, , we worked on it the last couple of years. But, I mean, it’s very frustrating that they haven’t spoken to a real estate person, someone who’s actually work in the industry and tell them look, this will not work for us because of certain rules and regulations and the certain way that we work. So if a company comes and solves the problem of integration with different systems, and also integration with different vendors, then I think they will be the ones to go for in the future.

Louisa 

Yes. And Imran, would you would you agree with this?

Imran 

Yes, definitely. I definitely think data and I think it’s actually a wider point than just for prop tech firms, because I think as an industry, it’s one of the reasons why maybe we’ve been kind of as an industry, kind of laggards in terms of this kind of digital transform because it’s been a very closed industry, even some of the kind of the major software houses, as we, as an organization have tried to kind of digitize our business, when you actually engage with some of the kind of incumbent software vendors, for them to actually open up their systems it’s like you’re talking apples and apples and oranges. And there’s other industries who are way ahead of us. And I think the actual concern for I think some of the incumbent software houses, if they don’t open up their systems, there’s going to be prop tech firms out there that will come up and eat up their market share very quickly.

Louisa 

Naqash you mentioned there’s some great products out there but you’re  shocked when, say they haven’t even spoken to a real estate professional to find out what is the actual problem they’re trying to solve or understand, what is needed in the industry, what’s the – I’m sure the audience and everyone loves hearing  a good story – so what would you say some worst prop tech pitch you’ve had? Obviously, you don’t have to name names of the company, but what did they do wrong? And why was it so terrible?

Naqash 

Yes, I mean, I think you you’ve seen it first-hand. I think whenever somebody pitched to us, we definitely we have wave kind of feedback. And we will give our genuine feedback and where we think that things are going wrong. And especially, to me, I don’t really like to praise if I see that they are definitely certain issues within the product, because I think a good general feedback will definitely help the company to grow. And I think one of the worst one had, every time I said to you look, I think you should be doing this way. He said, Oh, no, the Naqash you don’t know, I know this. I know this throughout the pitch, and he was like, always not happy when I was just as important and I was not criticising I was giving feedback. He was not happy at all and I think I just wanted him to finish!

Louisa 

I guess co founders or the CEO they’re so close to their product, that product they’ve developed for ages and sometimes they just need to say, wait this is constructive, these are the guys I need to sell to, let’s take this on board and just not be so close to it. It’s not personal, it must be quite hard for people to  keep that  detachment from it.

Naqash 

I do a lot of mentoring for a PropTech company and I think most of them I find them very, very, I think, they want a particular input, and they want to understand, I think what we think of the product, which is good, but that’s one of those times where I just, it wasn’t right, it was not a thing I should be giving feedback on, I just need to stop the meeting, you don’t really know much about your product I don’t know why you’re showing it to me!

Louisa 

Both you and Imran, and I guess the rest of the association, you have your  day to day jobs. I mean, you want to push forward innovation within your businesses, but the I guess, how much time do you have in your day or your week or your month to start-ups pitching to you? I mean, imagine how many pitches do you reckon you’ve had in the past year, past 12 months to La Salle?

Imran 

I probably couldn’t say a number, I think, I mean, I know my inboxes can get completely smashed. I mean, I think we’re really trying to focus time and be kind of laser focused on the actual solutions out there. And I think one of the issues, I think, just going back to what Naqash said is, I think sometimes you get kind of PropTech solutions where before even you get them in you kind of see the information they’ve sent to you is it’s a kind of a solution, but you’re not sure what problem is solving. And I think that’s really the key. So I think for these kind of Prop tech firms, I think the advice I would really give is before going, I think a lot of them are they want to get a kind of a return on investment but I think the real focus should be to is to be, rather than going out and casting a wide net to really go and try and find say one business partner. So I think what Naqash was saying in terms of speaking to someone who actually has real estate knowledge, and maybe going back to one of my other points in terms of, I think there’s other industries that have really taken that leap in terms of digital, so maybe some of the prop tech firms are kind of coming from other industries. But, to actually find that business partner from real estate, who can actually work with you and work in a partnership to actually help you develop your product and actually only go to the market when your product has been road-tested. Because one of the questions I always ask, , when I get a prop tech firm in one of the questions always is okay, fine, Who are you working with, , who have you spoken? Is there someone that you’re helping you develop your product? And if it’s just No, no, no. And it’s kind of just vapor that I’m hearing, , I haven’t really got time at the moment to, to help someone develop a tool if it’s not really something that’s going to help me. If I’m meeting someone, they say, Oh, I’ve spoken to PGIM they’re helping me develop the product, I’m like, Okay, that sounds interesting. Maybe I don’t need to hold your hand. And we’ve actually done that. So I mean, we did not to kind of drop names. I mean, this is a name out there in the market, Voyanta, , we have worked with before when they were actually a prop tech firm, before they were bought by Altus and what that really helped us to do, as well as bringing benefits from the Voyanta side, it actually helped us tailor that product to meet our requirements. And that’s the real benefit I think that Proptech firms can do, is if they find the right business partner it’s kind of a symbiotic relationship that both parties can really get benefits out of it. And I think maybe sometimes the opposite firms and I’m not thinking that way.

Naqash 

Yes I think the question on number of pitches, I mean, I would say at least two a week I get at some times, I mean, and that’s not even my main job, my main job! My main job is innovation within the company, digital transformation and these projects across Europe and APAC region, and there’s like maybe 10% of my job, looking at innovative solutions as a product. So I mean, two to a week, and I think I’m kind of trying to spread across a number of weeks. I think what I struggle with number one, exactly, I think was what is the problem that you’re trying to solve? I think I struggle with that all the time, I say okay, does my solution work? But what is the problem here know what you’re trying to solve? So my advice to the PropTech is, and a lot of companies, that come and pitch to the REIMtech, I give them a very certain kind of strategy and how they can how they come and pitch the product. I would say number one, always focus on the problem, and also your research into the problem and what is the current market constitution when it comes to a solution. So, what is happening there? So what are what are the issues with how many deeds are going through? And what is the issue when it comes to signing of the deed, so where we can add value? And maybe why at the end, maybe another five to 15 minutes, then share and show your product and say, Okay, this is the solution we have, I mean, because you only have like 30 minutes to pitch to the REIMtech group and you only will get with 30 minutes with a bit of PropTech. So you need to really focus on problem rather than the solution because I think once you understand the problem, that issue will become easier to I think, obviously digest from our perspective, and we want you to solve.

Louisa 

So out of various pitches, I’m sure you guys have been piloting some Proptech’s as well, Imran have you seen any success stories of products in the market? Which whether you trialled personally in your business, whether it’s say a different software, property management system? Any success stories in the market? 23.23

Imran 

The biggest success for us and I mentioned before was kind of Voyanta, which maybe now doesn’t seem like a PropTech solution, but kind of was at the time. I think there’s other firms that I think are very interesting. I think definitely Coyote is definitely one of them. Yes, that I think has a lot of legs. I think those are probably the ones that stuck but there’s a whole host really, and I think in terms of I think for me, if you talk about property management, I think there’s I think the incumbents are very strong. So I haven’t really seen anything in the kind of the property management side that kind of has made me kind of stand out because I think that that area is so specialized that is really challenging. But I think one of the areas that I would actually love to see kind of solutions is around the I think there’s two, I think one is actually on the kind of the real estate specific workflow tool. So again, Coyotes is one but I think there’s a lot of opportunities in in that area. And I think another one is actually a portfolio management tool, which I think as after the business is crying out and actually haven’t seen, , tools out there that fully meet our requirements aren’t kind of just super complex. There’s a lot there are some tools out there. But yes, as a business, and I’m sure Naqash isn’t saying, , there’s a lot of Excel in our industry. But I think as organizations we really want to move away from Excel. I thought for obviously the obvious reasons. And I think the solutions out there at the moment are They’re better than Excel, but also in some ways worse. So I think that’s a real area. And I haven’t really seen that opportunity yet. But I think that is an opportunity in the industry.

Louisa 

Yes well fingers crossed it is yet to come. Naqash, what about you, any success stories or products, which you’ve been really impressed by?

Naqash 

So yes, I’ll mention few names, I think, yes. I’m not sure if I’m allowed to say anything, but I’ll mention it. And I think, as Imran said, I think when you come to look at brackets within the amendment. So look at an asset management bracket. I think, of course, I think we also are a big client of Voyanta, and I’ll be working with Imran on other REIMtech groups to really give our feedback to a wider group and they have taken that feedback, I would say, I mean, they come to wherever we call them as a group and they really show showcase their roadmap, and we have actually,  in the meeting we also change the roadmap when if needed. So I think Voyanta definitely is for us a success story, but I mean they are of course, their team management as Imran mentioned other qualities, their work I think they have a good product, but they also building their management side but I believe their development is quite good and stable. I don’t see anyone competing. Also the Altus acquire product there and then they have pathways coming out of the US perspective. Apart from Voyanta, I would say of course I think Imran mentioned Coyote, I think I like the product.

I think on the document amendment and AI side I think a lot of things are happening there and I think we had Levitan but now we have someone like Ivana coming up, I like the product, I think it is quite good. They bring AI data extraction document and workflow together in one product. Something that will be very good and interesting for the market. And then of course, we have the drive and other culture products. And also, I think the data collection and data validation tool I mean, I really like what they’re doing at PRODA. I think really bringing the AI to life, I would say, we hear this word quite a lot, but I don’t see a lot of PropTech that actually using the etymology. So I think they bring their AI to real estate especially when it comes to data. And as I mentioned earlier, I think data is a big problem in the industry. So if they are able to deliver on their promises and a product, that I think that would be great. And we also have, I think Relax data out of Germany, they similar to PRODA. Well, that’s what I mean, that’s what we see.

I think as I mentioned, I mean Altus. I think I recently CashFlow which is out of Australia. It’s not really a totally portfolio, but it’s like they do a quick appraisals and the deal with cash flow projects and I think that will be interesting to see how that will play out on the stage. Yes, I think if I missed anyone, please I apologize for that. But I think that the some of the Proptechs are doing good and I look forward to their journeys I think.

Louisa 

Yes, I guess how they  changed but you both listed PropTech from, I guess, across the world and that’s the  beauty of it, its amazing to see now what US players are going to come over here, what vice versa  and everyone  taking their risks. And yes, we’ll see who comes out top and it’s not going to change in the next a year or two.

Naqash 

I think the VTS I think they have done remarkable work,  how can I not mention them? I think from the lease perspective. Definitely. I think they are going places and they definitely one to watch for us for sure.

Naqash 

The companies who are able to, I think, be more flexible with their roadmaps, and then listen to the client feedback and also the companies are actually open to partnering with other companies as Imran alluded, a lot of companies they  are quite closed shops, they don’t want to interact with other smaller PropTech’s or other solutions. They want to build the solution themselves. I think I think the way we can actually grow this PropTech industry is actually being able to collaborate more. And I think before collaboration happens, I think will better apply to us because we actually have one solution. Where we have multiple solutions in one product, rather than have multiple production, multiple solutions I think where we are actually able to do that is going to be the winner.

Louisa 

Yes, one thing which after interviewing various people is saying collaboration is key from all sorts of angles, whether it’s start-ups, to associations, its the sharing of a set of information, the sharing of  data, what seems to be what everyone’s talking about the moment

Is there anything that you two would like to add for the end of the Propcast?

Imran 

Yes, I mean, I think we’re at a very interesting time in our industry. I think that’s why Naqash and I probably a year or so ago we thought about this whole kind of REIMtech and bringing it together. But I think it’s just snowballing. And I mean, we’re at a crazy time in the world. But I think as we kind of come out of that, the momentum will build again. And I think there’s a a lot of opportunities in our industry. I mean, we’re seeing at La Salle we’re trying to bring in people actually out of real estate to bring their expertise in to help drive us as a business forward. And I think from that from the Proptech world I think that’s only going to happen more and I think there’s a huge opportunity, but I think just making sure that the solution meets what we need as an industry, I think that’s going to be the key. But the opportunities are ripe. And there are real gaps in the market that there’s still people can come in and really make a difference.

Naqash 

I would say I think Imran just mentioned, I would say there’s still a lot of gaps, especially when it comes to investment management and asset management, I think in vertical there are a lot of gaps. We see the market and still I think I don’t see a lot of solution coming in that space or they’re not a lot of competition there. So I think these definitely speak to , real estate professionals, speak to speak to us, we speak to REIMtech, and we can give you the idea where we think that the industry is lacking and definitely will add great value to the whole industry.

Louisa

Yes, well awesome Naqash and Imran thank you so much for coming on the Propcast. It’s been fantastic learning about REIMtech, how its developed over the years, various members, learnings and takings from it, and how you’re  sharing information. So hopefully, all in the property technology we can  all move forward together. I’m sure various start-ups will appreciate the do’s and don’ts of PropTech pitching and obviously the key learnings in this is the importance of data, sharing information and what products are really to needed in the market. And I guess the importance of flexibility and roadmaps and collaboration.