French PropTech with Jade Francine and Deborah Fritz

About Our Guests

Jade Francine

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jade-francine-0106bb41/?originalSubdomain=fr

Jade is the co-founder and COO of WeMaintain, the tech-enabled lift maintenance company radically and rapidly transforming the market. Jade spent five years studying and working in Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai and Bangalore before returning to France to launch WeMaintain. WeMaintain gives building managers a high-quality service that combines the technical skills of lift engineers with the agility and predictive power of its own proprietary technology. WeMaintain uses digital technology to empower lift engineers and customers, and believe that technology should serve people, not the other way around. At the centre of our philosophy is the belief that “we rise by lifting others”.

Deborah Fritz

https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborahfritz/?locale=fr_FR

Deborah comes from a background of real estate and corporate finance and after working for nearly 10 years in management control at UBS, Deborah became the CFO of the real estate investment fund US speaking Capital Partners in France. After that, she decided to model the asset management tool that was lacking and as a result cofounded MYRE in 2016. MYRE is the real estate data management solution for asset managers, this solution optimises performance of assets and initiates a profound transformation of collaboration between teams. Deborah holds three master’s degrees on modelling applied and Economics and Management, Banking Management Control and Ecometrics.

Resources Referenced In Episode

LMRE website www.lmre.co.uk

UKPA website www.ukpa.com

WeMaintain website www.wemaintain.com

MYRE website www.getmyre.com

Insights From This Episode

• If we trust in ourself, and if we’re convinced that we have the good idea we need to go forward and push all the doors, the doors are now open to woman definitely – Deborah Fritz
• Mostly customers are not satisfied by the current situation. They want innovation, they want data they want transparency, reactivity. So you have to make sure that the product can answer such needs – Jade Francine
• It’s important to have strong clients that can talk about it (your product) as they are your best PR – Deborah Fritz
• We have a very strong diversity, not only in terms of women but ages, backgrounds, nationalities and this is also how you can change the industry – Jade Francine
• I think real estate is right now reinventing itself – Deborah Fritz

Episode Transcript

Louisa

Hi everyone and welcome to the Propcast, my name is Louisa Dickins, co-founder of LMRE and board director of the UKPA, and I shall be your weekly host. Each week for 30 minutes, we will be connecting the VCs, PropTech start-ups and real estate professionals globally, and assist in bridging that famous communication gap we all love talking about. So, sit back, relax and enjoy the show. Hi everyone and welcome to the podcast, today we will be exploring French PropTech, as France is becoming a serious player in the PropTech world and a huge hub for innovation. And we will be speaking with two female PropTech founders, Jade COO of WeMaintain, and Deborah CEO and founder of MYRE. So welcome to the show, ladies.

Jade

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Deborah

Thanks for inviting me on this podcast.

Louisa

No it’s a pleasure having you both. And let me give the audience a little brief introduction to both of you. So Jade began her career in a business law firm in Shanghai, where she helped entrepreneurs to set up their business and since then she’s become the COO and co founder of WeMaintain, and is currently in charge of all the day to day operations, marketing and much more. And for those who haven’t heard of WeMaintain, it’s radically transforming the regulated maintenance market, it offers building managers and owners a solution that combines the technical skills of engineers with the agility and predictability of its proprietary technology. Now WeMaintain supports numerous clients in both residential and office property markets and has won major contractors. Since the launch the company has already raised 8.8 million euros from ID Invest and Race Ventures and the WeMaintain team are in Paris and London, and are roughly about 65 people, that correct Jade?

Jade

No, I think we’re 72. But it’s almost the same, yes.

Louisa

I love that. Well, congrats on that expansion and also welcome. Now time for Deborah’s introduction who is also joining us. Now Deborah comes from a background of real estate and corporate finance and after working for nearly 10 years in management control at the famous UBS, Deborah became the CFO of the real estate investment fund US speaking Capital Partners in France. For eight years she was responsible for wealth of more than $2 billion. After that, she decided to model the asset management tool that was lacking and as a result cofounded MYRE in 2016. MYRE is the real estate data management solution for asset managers. So if you are an asset manager reach out, this solution optimises performance of assets and initiates a profound transformation of collaboration between teams. Now, they properly entered the market in around mid 2019 and now has major accounts with clients including Keys Asset Management,Northwood Investors, Catalyst Capitalto some fairly big names, which I’m sure a lot of you listening to, especially from the real estate asset management world would have heard of. Deborah impressively holds three master’s degrees on modelling applied and Economics and Management, Banking Management Control and Ecometrics, I’m not entirely sure what Ecometrics is, but it sounds pretty bloody difficult. So welcome, both of you to the podcast and without further ado, let’s get started the questions. So Jade, why don’t you kick start us off with how you transitioned or got into PropTech from law to co founding your own start-up?

Jade

So yes, so actually I used to work with start-ups as I was working in a business law firm in Shanghai, most of our clients were SMEs, start-ups. So I was really into the tech world, I was also pretty much involved in the French tech, you have a really strong French tech community in Shanghai. And then I met with my co founder. So at that time, he was working for the leader in the lift industry, Otis, and he explained to me how the building operations are kind of broken and how the tech can change that. And I was really into it, mostly because I could see that it will have a real impact on customers. So asset owners, property managers, and also on the lift engineers. I could see it will be really game changing in the in the industry. So I switched, I knew nothing about the real estate but I think that was also good to have someone really fresh and new and to see things differently. So this is how it happened.

Louisa

I think that’s the beat of this space. There’s people approaching it from completely different angles, fresh faces, fresh ideas, and it’s really helping with the whole innovation process. Now Deborah, what about you, you came from banking originally. Tell us a bit more about how you became founding MYRE?

Deborah

Yes I’m coming from the banking industry and my studies were more oriented on the banking area. So after 10 years in the banking industry, I had an opportunity to work at Beacon and how can you say no to a company like Beacon, so I jumped into real estate and when you are in real estate, you never leave real estate. So after a little bit of a shock of realizing that in the real estate industry, you don’t have access really to your data and there it’s a big thing collecting all the data that everybody has, because it’s an extremely intermediated business, I realised that I wanted to create the tool that the asset manager wanted to collect all the data. So after eight years at Beacon, I decided to create really the tool I wanted to have.

Louisa

And congrats on doing it and not many people managed to do that, see or experience a problem themselves and then work out how they’re personally going to fix it. So for our audience as well, I gave a very brief introduction to what your products both do. So would love if you could both elaborate on them. Jade do you want to tell us a little bit more about WeMaintain?

Jade

Yes, sure. So WeMaintain are a French start-ups and now we are based in Paris and London, we just opened London a year ago. So basically, we offer building managers and owners end to end solution for building operations. So what we do is that we take care of maintenance operation that are essential to buildings such as elevators, escalators, fire and safety. And we also deploy IoT centre on such equipment. So thanks to that the customer gets reliable equipment, and also real time data and information on their buildings. And that’s absolutely new in the building operation industry. So if you’re in London, and if you take the DLR line you will be able to use the lift and escalator maintained by WeMaintain. We just signed a four year contract with them, so that’s a really big contract for us and we super happy. So this is it. I mean, we are  just transforming the entire market thanks to engineers, giving them motivation and financial incentive also. And plus, bringing technology, all kinds it can be a dashboard for customers, mobile app for lift engineers, but also IoT and collecting all this data, analysing such data and making sure that you can actuate the data because its not about only collecting but making sure you can use them. And this is quite exciting.

Louisa

Yes, so it’s lift engineering made sexy, it’s pretty impressive. And getting DLR on as a client I mean, that will surely help all those city workers on their commute in. Now Deborah, please elaborate a bit more about how your platform is simplifying real estate asset management, and bringing all the asset data under one roof.

Deborah

Sure. So the real estate market is huge and there’s a lot of stakeholders, a lot of intermediaries, as an asset manager you may work with several property managers, several brokers, several corporate advisors, notaries, legal or accountant and so on. You may work with brokers in capital markets, and so on. So a lot of intermediaries that each one of them holds some data. As an asset manager, you need to collect these data from various sources. And you need to have them in real time and the problem is that you don’t have it in real time because of all those intermediary stakeholders. So the idea is really to source all the data under one roof for the asset manager for him to take the right decision on the right time. And by doing that, we’re not only collecting the data, we put a strong algorithm with a mathematical behind to check and with validation workflows we make the data completely trustful and really reliable for the asset manager. So all the data is now under one roof and are completely correct, then the asset manager can play with the data, do some business plans, make some projection and never miss anything.

Louisa

I love that, I think emphasis on the data is correct. From the feedback I’ve had or just my fairly basic understanding of data in real estate, it’s not easy to read, it’s not all completely correct. And now we’ve spoken a little bit about both your clients, and you’ve got some pretty big names there. Congrats on those to date, how have you gone about getting some of these clients? Both coming from out of sector as well, so you don’t naturally have the black book in real estate, which lots of brokers and real estate professional, the classic white male real estate man might have. What were your obstacles? Because you guys have some pretty big names and I would love to hear is there any sort of secret tips you can get for fellow listeners, and just anyone out there who’s trying to get a new product into some big names and asset managers? Jade, why don’t you go first?

Jade

Yes, sure. Well, actually I think you need to have a product market fit and that was the case for WeMaintain, because if you look at our industry its just dominated by industry incumbents that have been there for ages and years. Like the leader in our industry has been there for 165 years, and mostly customer are not satisfied but by the current situation. They want innovation, they want data they want transparency, reactivity. So you have to make sure that the product can answer such needs. And we had that. So actually, it was not that hard to go and talk to key accounts and saying like, ‘Hey, we’re a new player, we do that and we do it very well.

And we can help you to transition also to smart buildings. Because his is pretty new. So this is it. I mean, mostly it’s about like what you can offer to your to your customers, you have to make sure you understand the needs, and that you can answer such needs. And it is the case also when you sign customers, that they’re going to testify for you and they also want you to succeed. I think we’ve done that with a few customers that we have, we make them speak and this is good, because then you get some credibility, some trust. And this is how you can just expand. So I mean, we’ve done that for instance, when we when we launched London, we asked our international chair comps can you please introduce us to your team in London. And they all say yes, sure, because I want to keep WeMaintain, so it’s also in their interest to see your company growing.

Louisa

Awesome. A lot of it is about getting some good case studies and that’s for any industry as well, it’s the same way for us but it’s I think the beauty also of having teams that can cross sell between France or the UK market and no doubt when you expand to other markets, so you can ask whether it’s AXA, Aviva ‘Hey, can you introduce us to your across sea teams’. Now Deborah, what about you? How was getting your product to the asset management world, you already had a few connections there. What was your experience?

Deborah

I agree with Jade with the product market fit, we started with early adopters, some asset managers that were just like us identifying there was a lack in collecting their data and needed some tools to go faster. So we started with early adopters, we developed with them and then they did the job for us by telling others they were using the platform. So it’s important to have strong clients that can talk about it, as they are your best PR.

Louisa

And what about scoring your major clients? Who was that for you, Deborah?

Deborah

Our major client, it was first in France It was a company called B and C France. And also well you mentioned Keys Asset Management and the American Northwood Investors.

Louisa

Nice, its like we mentioned earlier of having a few under the belt and then once you’ve got those you can get these testimonies and then the world is your oyster. Now, as we briefly touched upon before we hopped on the podcast, I was saying what a pleasure it was to actually have two female founders on the podcast which we have not yet done. Tell me a little bit more about your experience of being a female founder, is there any advice to our listeners who are also looking at starting their own business? And that could be having the strength to do it, finding the right product, investment. Jade tell me a little bit more about when you first went into it, what, how did you find that?

Jade

Actually even before started WeMaintain I was working in a male dominated field, I was working in a business law firm. So customers, investors, also my colleagues were men, so I was kind of used to it. So moving to a new male dominated industry, it didn’t really change anything. I think male founder, female founder, there’s not much difference it because the business is hard if you if you become a founder, this is not easy. I mean, when you read the media, it seems like it’s all fine and everybody’s raising some money. But the reality that this is hard, and you need to have your own level of ambition, and you need to spread it to the customers, to your team. And that’s really fulfilling but it’s not about I think being a female or a male, its just that’s the same for any founder. But then as a female of course working in a male dominated industry, you want to have more women around you. And this is great, because as a founder, you can decide who’s going to work with you. And this is part of WeMaintain, we have a very strong diversity, not only in terms of women but ages, backgrounds, nationalities and this is also how you can change the industry. So for me, my only piece of advice would be if you want to do it, just do it. Don’t listen to anyone, and it’s not going to be easy but it’s really fulfilling.

Louisa

Have you ever struggled trying to attract women to get into the lift and engineering space? It’s not the natural route for a lot of women to think about and obviously it’s perception it,  and different career pathways. But how have you found that?

Jade

Well, you do have a lot of women like willing to change things and usually you’re going to attract these kind of women. So they will identify with you. I guess that’s the same for MYRE and Deborah, the mission you have is really motivating, so they’ll be willing to join. And then sometimes you also have men willing to work for a company with a different mindset, and for instance here at WeMaintain, we have people and they really love this diversity, that’s the first time some men work with women, you won’t believe it but they do love it. So once you have all these people, and they can work together really well and you also make sure everyone understand what’s your DNA, then you really attract really good people.

Louisa

Yes, you mentioned of the last part, DNA, I guess everyone having the same mission which obviously the founders set and making sure everyone’s on board with that and then you should hopefully focus on inclusion there. Now Deborah, tell us a little bit more about your experience being a female founder?

Deborah

Well, it’s a bit like Jade. The hard one is being a founder, not being a female founder. So a lot of difficulty and this is the same thing if you’re a man or a woman I say, but I think that women think too much about all the risk they can have if they want to launch a company and we need as a women to think less and if we trust in ourself if we think and if we’re convinced that we have the good idea we need to go forward and push all the doors and now the doors are open to woman definitely.

Louisa

I agree that it’s backing yourself, I’ve said this on a previous podcast before when I put a job post up so many more men apply for it, I think like 80% more because they just like yes, I can do it, I’ll take the risk, if I apply for it and I don’t get it it’s fine. But women think more about it and probably do more of a cost benefit analysis but yes, just go for it. Cringy as it might sound, follow your dreams and put yourself forward, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Louisa

Now let’s talk a bit more about the PropTech market in Paris. And what is the market like in terms of adoption within real estate? What have your experiences been?

Jade

Yes so I think it really depends on who you’re talking to and mostly, if you’re talking to local real estate players or international real estate players. So definitely to us, it’s been easier to convert and to sign international real estate players and maybe because they are more tech driven, data driven, smart building driven, so we really had super interesting conversation with the top management. And they really like our end to end vision solution. So we have a lot of international key accounts here in Paris. And then, when local real estate players, I mean mostly French real estate players, they could see we were working with really big companies, then they say, ‘Oh, we want to try also’. I think the French market is maybe a bit less advanced in terms of technology adoption. But still it’s coming, because the current situation is also changing things. I mean, now you need to have data technology and do things remotely, so things are changing. But I can see that the traction we have a in London at the very beginning, we were new, nobody knew us but the traction was like super, super intense. I think the team we have in London is great but still the customers are maybe a bit more open minded in London than then Paris.

Louisa

Yes, I think that just comes with general adoption, its just going to take time. And we can see in North America, that’s about five years in front of the UK, UK is a couple of years in front of, say, France, the German market and a few other hubs of innovation but it’s all catching up, which is awesome. Deborah, what about you? What changes or trends and adoption have you seen?

Deborah

Well you both mentioned it, PropTech was really slow in France compared to the US. I mean not only Paris, but it’s the same user in all the country, real estate is a world of stone and it’s hard to change the habits and have tools doing stuff for you. We are 10 years behind US, for instance. COVID time definitely helps the real estate industry to go to PropTech to understand that the data is really key. And that asset managers need to have their data in real time. We have some clients that it took them three months to know exactly how much unpaid rent they had, what was their occupancy over the full portfolio, and so on. So that awful period helped in realizing that PropTech was behind in France.

Louisa

But hopefully it won’t be too behind for much more. And now talk to us a little bit more about maybe some of your expansion plans or product plans. Deborah, are there plans to outside of Europe or any new elements of the product which is coming out?

Deborah

We have a really strong product in terms of technology and now we’re in the middle of the fund raising to go to other European countries. So we’re going to move on I think by the end of this year to UK and to Germany, by hiring a sales team in both countries. So our next step is really International.

Louisa

Awesome best of luck with all of that. And then Jade, what about you? You’re already in the UK, you’re in France, what’s next for WeMaintain?

Jade

Well, actually three months ago, we just acquired a new company called Shokly. So Shokly is a supplier of technology solution for the maintenance of fire safety system. So we did the acquisition and now we are in the middle of the integration, making sure the product, on the hardware, on the software. On the customer interface on the engineering mobile app. Everything is smooth and integrated and now we also deploying this IoT solution on the buildings we work on. So this is it, no new extension but product integration.

Louisa

And how is that integration been, merging two companies?

Jade

Actually, we had the same vision. So, we met about a year ago and we soon realized we really had exactly the same vision, which is making sure you have an IoT solution that can fit on all types of equipment. For instance, the IoT solution we have for the lift, you can use it for any kind of lift. And that’s the same we Shokly, it can sell it solution to all brands and models of the fire alarm systems. And also, we had the same DNA in that when you look at PropTech, a lot of them they conceive a data platform and then they will look for the data, and they will try to analyse it. But we did it from the other side meaning that we first collect, we start from the field of expertise, we identified, we collect the data, and then we just push it to the platform. So that’s a different way of doing things. So as we share the same DNA, it’s been pretty seamless. And we have the same customers and the engineers also super excited by this new solution. So it’s pretty seamless.

Louisa

You make M&A sound simple, I’m glad it was so successful. Now, I should have brought up this question when we are talking about experience and the PropTech market in France. In the UK we have obviously the UKPA as an association, in Canada we have the PropTech Collective, there’s PropTech Australia, all these different associations. Are there any associations in France for real estate innovation and for people who might want to learn more about the community or be part of community? I know Deborah I think you started your own association for 17%, if you could tell us a little bit more about that.

Deborah

Yes, so 17% its not in the innovation space, is on the female real estate. We discussed that before as how it was of being a female CEO, I think that the discussion is more how being a female in this real estate male environment. So we are five at the head of this association, and  was launched three years ago now. And 17% is the rate of female participation at the MIPIM in Cannes every year. So it’s pretty, pretty poor. And the idea is really to connect female to each other to make network and to help younger and to motivate them by three events in the year. One event is to propose to help and to raise funds for an association that is related either to female or to real estate. The other one is to have feedback from a successful woman in real estate or maybe not in real estate, but to see how she pushed the doors and how she was successful in a male environment. And the third one is the unique party so it’s a completely a party, where you have the same number of male and female working in the real estate environment. And this association is a really big success and it will be launched after the pandemic time in London also. So we crossed fingers to make it happen.

Louisa

Awesome, well congratulations on that. And whatever LMRE can do to support that, we would love to get involved. Jade, what about you, are there any associations or groups which you’ve joined within this space which has been sort of helpful or is helping the community build?

Jade

So we do have an association in France called French PropTech, and they work in association with real estate, so you have a few organization association, but mostly with the current situation you cannot meet anyone. So it’s a bit complicated but mostly again, I think like the way we’ve been successful at WeMaintain is not really like trying to network too much with other start-ups, but also making sure we have the right product market fit that we answer our customer needs. I do receive a lot of emails from start-ups, I’m sure it’s the same for Deborah, people emailing us saying, ‘Hey, we could do that vendor offer. We could do that together’ and we just have to stay focused on our bids. Making sure customers are happy with us and then we’ll see. So I don’t want to sound selfish but really that’s the thing I tell my team look just stay focused on. Don’t look at the competition. Don’t look at anyone else. Just stay focused on as customers and that’s going to be fine.

Louisa

Jade by the sounds of it, it doesn’t sound like there’s too much competition in that niche which you specialize in.

Jade

We do have big competitors but not start-ups actually.

Louisa

Perfect that’s what we like to hear. Now we are coming to the final part of the podcast ladies. And we finish off with the LMRE part. Lessons you’ve learned your career and mentioned anyone, can shout out a product or something like that, are any regrets in the career and what are you most excited about the future PropTech. So Deborah, why do you go first,  what’s maybe one of the major lessons you’ve learned so far in your career?

Deborah

Well it’s pretty simple. It’s never give up and trust in you.

Louisa

I love that. And Jade, can you top that?

Jade

I have one which is also super simple. The most precious asset that you have is you , so make sure you get some sleep, some healthy food, that you have a stable emotional life. And if you get that and then if you work, then you’re going to be you’re going to be fine.

Louisa

I couldn’t agree more, a bit of me-time is so key, especially in this chaotic start-up world. And okay Deborah, is there anyone you want to give a shout out to, a product or something like that?

Deborah

Jade maybe you can start on this one?

Jade

Yes, sure. So I have so many people in my mind, but there is one start up that I really like called Deepki. They specialize in ESG and they’re doing a really good job and entering the UK market so this is great. They’re working with really big customers and they helping them on their ESG strategy data Collection.

Louisa

the key I love I say that we’ve actually just helped them find their head of UK so the country manager called Katie Whipp. So that’s my shout out to Katie, I’ve never done a shout out. But again, Vincent the founder is brilliant, and I met him when I went over to Paris PropTech MIPIN and I met him there and he was the most charismatic man on his stall, talking about what his product does in the ESG. space. He’s brilliant so absolutely great shout out to Deepki. What about that Deborah, anyone you can think of at the moment?

Deborah

Yes. So it’s more about a someone than a company. So I wanted to mention Sophie Kramer, who is our early adopter in the UK, we adopted MYRE to the UK already and she was our first user. And also she will be the one launching 17% Association in the UK.

Louisa

Nice, well I’m looking forward to speaking to her over the next few weeks. And what business does she work for?

Deborah

She works with our client Northwood Investors, so now we are working on the UK asset.

Louisa

Now are any regrets in your career? I always think I need to change this R, but let’s turn this into a positive spin off. So Deborah, why don’t you go first and this one?

Deborah

Well, I’m 40 so my regret is not having a launch my company earlier.

Louisa

Okay. What about you, Jade?

Jade

I think at the beginning of my career, I was maybe a bit naive about money because you have all these taboos about financial education, money and women. So I think it was a bit naive. But then, I mean, I realised it pretty soon, so I made sure I get this financial education and I see especially in London, you have like a really great start-up called Vesper. And it’s all about making sure women get all the financial education they need. And she’s great is led by Emily Boulet and the job that she’s doing is really amazing. So yes, that’s my regret.

Louisa

I think there’s also there’s so many new online courses to play with. It’s not just the straight University route where you have to commit so much of your time, its just so much more accessible courses you can do. So it’s not one straight route which I think is great, especially for people from everywhere, a man or women, different backgrounds, education’s, it’s just all accessible. What are you both most excited about for the future of PropTech? Deborah, if you go first.

Deborah

I think real estate is right now reinventing itself, all the industries reinventing itself by using new technology and being able to work with start-ups, which was not very easy. So we are in the beginning of a new real estate world where that data can finally be used and be a predictive tool.

Louisa

And Jade?

Jade

It’s kind of the same actually, just that things and mindset are changing in the real estate. That’s super exciting. So yes, you can see people are friendly, looking at Proptechs, interested and they want things to change. I mean, now it is not like real estate is being PropTech, its that PropTech is really being part of the real estate. So this is super exciting.

Louisa

What I’m most excited about ladies, I’m excited to meet everyone in person I’ve been recording these podcasts with and getting out to their events, and just actually having bit of fun in person. Because as much as I love virtual relationships, which I’m sure you guys have been building as well, it’s great to actually put a face to a name. Unfortunately, we’re coming to the end of the show and it’s been an absolute pleasure speaking about both your experiences and learning more about the French PropTech market, and best of luck with both your expansion plans. If you could both please let the audience know the best way to connect with you and maybe Jade, you can go first.

Jade

So you can just go on our website www.wemaintain.com or you can contact me on LinkedIn. I usually try to reply to all the messages I get, also sometimes it takes me ages. So Jade Francine, you can find me on LinkedIn.

Louisa

Beautiful and Deborah what about you?

Deborah

Same thing, website, LinkedIn, email. So website is www.getMYRE.com and my LinkedIn is Deborah Fritz, and my email is deborah@myre.fr

Louisa

Thank you both for joining me on the podcast and I’m looking forward to catching up with you after the show.

Both

Thank you.

Louisa

Thank you for joining us this week on the podcast and a big thanks to our special guests. Make sure you visit our website www.lmre.co.uk where you can subscribe to our show, or you’ll find us on iTunes and Spotify where all good content as found. While you’re at it, if you found value in the show, we’d appreciate if you could rate and review us on iTunes or if you simply spread the word. I’ll catch you later.