19.8.21

The Propcast: What Is Happening In Real Estate Technology & Investment In Africa?

In this episode The Propcast talks to Sean Godoy from Divercity, and Wayne Berger from iShack, to discuss the emerging PropTech sector in South Africa and Sub-Saharan Africa. You'll hear of trends, tech, adoptions, and obstacles Sean and Wayne encounter across Africa.

Click here to listen to this episode, and here is a sneak peek of our chat below!

19.8.21

Key Insights From This Episode

  • I believe that the real success stories are still on the way in Africa and in South Africa – Wayne Berger
  • there's a big focus on investment that can spur that next stage of growth and adoption in the sector – Sean Godoy
  • Africa is really a dynamic continent – Wayne Berger
  • ESGS, particularly on environmental side, is an area where we'll see a lot more activity going forward – Sean Godoy
  • the interest in venture capital as a segment, and then also PropTech as a segment in venture capital has significantly grown – Wayne Berger
  • We've seen a lot more seed and angel investment into PropTechs – Wayne Berger
  • There's a lot more need and opportunity around investments – Sean Godoy
  • There's definitely strong tech talent in South Africa – Wayne Berger
  • It doesn't matter if you get things right and you get them wrong, it just matters that you continue – Wayne Berger

 

About Our Guests

Sean Godoy

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-godoy-6270582a/?originalSubdomain=za

Sean is the Founder & Director at Divercity Property Solutions and EXCO member at the South Africa Chamber of Commerce UK. Divercity Property Solutions is an independent property consultancy which is passionate about property markets and the property industry across Sub-Saharan Africa, and the opportunities they offer. This passion coupled with their forward-looking insight drives our unique and innovation approach to producing meaningful advice and developing solutions tailored to your specific property needs. Their key focuses are advisory around market insight and strategy, training & skills development, and innovation & digital strategy advisory.

Through his passion for South Africa, and role with the South African Chamber of Commerce, Sean supports and promotes promising UK/SA business opportunities and charitable initiatives. Sean firmly believe in Africa and its people, and am excited for the future of this diverse and dynamic continent. He is co-founder of PropTech Africa, which connects the PropTech ecosystem in Africa in order to create meaningful interactions and relationships. PropTech Africa also promotes the PropTech sector to the property industry and related stakeholders as a whole in order to raise awareness and drive growth on the continent.

Wayne Berger

https://www.linkedin.com/in/wayneberger/?originalSubdomain=za

Wayne is an experienced technology entrepreneur with a top international MBA. Wayne currently holds the position of Managing Director of iShack Ventures, a Venture Builder mandated to develop disruptive technologies in the Property industry, FinTech and Big Data. In addition, Wayne is the chairman of iShack Innovation Consultancy (established in 2005). iShack Innovation, a consultancy specialising in advising both local and international corporations on their online advertising and software development initiatives, ensuring maximum ROI on their digital spend. iShack Innovation’s clients include, Internet Solutions, Walt Disney, Warner Bros Growthpoint Property Fund, L’Oréal, Canon, Gareth Cliff and Cliffcentral to name a few.

Wayne is a co-founder of Venture Network South Africa, a non-profit entity with the intention of stimulating the South African start up eco-system. to-date Venture Network has facilitated 8 events, where 5 start-ups have acquired funding from the network (May 2016). Lastly, Wayne is a guest speaker focussing on Entrepreneurship, Business plan, Advanced digital marketing strategy, Gamification & Exponential organisation attributes.

About Our Host

Louisa Dickins

https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisa-dickins-ab065392/?originalSubdomain=uk

Louisa started her career in property working at a well-known estate agency in London. Realising her people skills, she moved over to Lloyd May to pursue a career in recruitment. She now is a Director at LMRE, who are a specialist recruitment firm driven by PropTech and recruitment professionals, and Louisa oversees their 5 core areas. Louisa co-founded LMRE and provides a constructive recruitment platform to the new disruptors in real estate. Louisa is also on the board of Directors at UK PropTech Association (UKPA).

About LMRE

www.lmre.tech

LMRE believe there is a better way to recruit. LMRE focus on a more comprehensive, client led focus delivering exceptional talent to the place at the time. They are passionate about the industry and passionate about people's careers. LMRE spend time with each client to become and an extension of the business, and their transparency and core values help them grow with the sector. LMRE simplify recruitment and innovate with our clients and evolve the people driven, PropTech community.

 

Resources Mentioned

LMRE website www.lmre.tech

Divercity website www.divercity.co.za

iShack website www.ishack.co.za            

South Africa PropTech Association www.saproptech.co.za

PropTech Africa Association www.proptechafrica.com

 

Episode Transcript

Louisa

Hi everyone and welcome to The Propcast. My name is Louisa Dickins, host of The Propcast and co-founder of LMRE, the global PropTech recruitment and search consultancy. In this podcast we will explore how the digital evolution of the real estate industry is impacting the property market. The aim of each episode is to introduce you to a PropTech innovator and discuss how their work has created a shift in focus when it comes to digitising the built environment.

Shameless plug, but I’m honoured to be a judge at this years 8th annual Real Estate Tech Awards, hosted by CREtech. Applications are closing soon so head to their website to apply and I look forward to awarding a prize to one of you in October. If you’re interested in finding out more about PropTech, or applying for a job in this space, or keen to know who the big players are that are moving and shaking the real estate industry up, we have you covered and we’ll be bringing you an episode each week to connect you with the VCs, PropTech start-ups and real estate professionals from around the globe. Also a big shout out to our sponsors of the podcast ReimTech and CREtech who you will hear from during the episode.

Today I'm joined by co-founders of PropTech Africa and South Africa Associations, Sean Godoy, and Wayne Berger. I was fortunate enough to meet Sean and Wayne as a result of LMRE’s global expansion and the UKPA’s development of other partnerships with other PropTech associations. And as we all know, collaboration is key and we all need to learn from each other in this growing space. After getting to know these two over the past couple months, I thought it was time to share with the podcast audience what is happening within African PropTech. And so today you'll hear of trends, tech, adoptions, and obstacles they face across Africa.

And so without further ado, thank you both for joining me today. But first, the intros. So everyone listening in, Sean is a property professional, who has spent over a decade working in various sectors of the property industry in South Africa and the UK. Most of his professional experience has been as a property market analyst and commentator. In 2017 he founded Divercity Property Solutions, which offers a range of advisory and training solutions in the property industry in South Africa and wider Sub-Saharan Africa. Sean is also as I mentioned earlier, a co-founder of South Africa PropTech and PropTech Africa associations and is extremely active through his business and various voluntary roles with organizations and believes strongly in the power of collaboration. And obviously, Sean is super passionate about South Africa and the wider continent, education and as I guess the development of PropTech.

 

Wayne, who is also joining us today also is another co-founder of PropTech South Africa and Africa is an experienced technology entrepreneur, specialising and working with multicultural decentralised teams with a top international MBA from IE business school in Madrid, Spain. And we're in currently holds the position of managing partner of iShack Ventures, a venture builder investing in disruptive technologies in the PropTech, FinTech and EduTech sectors. In addition, Wayne is the founder and current chairman at iShack Innovation Consultancy, and Venture Network Africa, which we'll hear a little bit more about later. And similar to Sean, Wayne is driven by the passion to enhance PropTech adoption by the real estate industry in Africa. So thank you both for joining me again, I would love to start this podcast with learning a little bit more, did you guys first meet?  And what really led you to founding PropTech Africa, PropTech South Africa?  

 

What lead to the founding of PropTech Africa and PropTech South Africa?

Wayne

Yes, sure, thank you for the introduction Louisa. So Sean and I actually met years back, I think was around 2018, we were at the East Africa Property Investments Summit in Kenya. And we hit it off pretty well and we were just discussing general trends in the real estate sector. And we identified that really there's been an explosion of PropTech Associations around the world, and we looked at the South African markets and we noticed that there was limited PropTech adoption, limited education on PropTech. And so we decided that we thought it would be a good idea to set up events and set up let's say the infrastructure to introduce people to PropTech. Originally, it was just for South Africa, and I'll let Sean tell you how we head up PropTech Africa.

 

Sean

Thanks for the introduction, like Wayne said we basically crossed paths and I think we both shared a lot of excitement and interest in PropTech, based on our work and previous exposures. And yes, we were inspired by what you saw overseas. So 2018 we launched SA PropTech and then 2019 was PropTech Africa, where another co-founder joined us, Kevin. So he's a seasoned real estate professional, he's worked all over Africa hence why he was a really good partner. So it started successfully and then we saw things happening in eastern West Africa, as well. So we focus mostly on Sub Saharan Africa in what we do, southern East West regions.

 

So we thought it'd be interesting just to have like a bit of a blanket organization to extend the conversation to these places. We both built up a bit of a network and made some good contacts, particularly Kenya and Nigeria, Nairobi, Lagos are kind of big tech hubs. So it makes sense that things are happening there. So yes, that's what led us and we just wanted to kind of grow the conversation. And actually, since in the last few years, there’s been a few new PropTech associations like PropTech Kenya, PropTech Uganda, and PropTech Nigeria, which is really cool to see. So we, we try to partner with them where we can, support them and vice versa. So it's a good story in the last few years.

 

Louisa

 And Wayne you have offices in Africa, in South Africa, you have your venture network in South Africa, you have iShack Innovation Consultancy, I always find lots of people in our growing space are enrolled in different businesses and ultimately can really help to helping other technology companies to fit in, because you have to have loads of different skills and knowledge and everything and you can help out doing some fantastic introductions. How do you balance it all? I really struggle balancing all the things, so how do you manage it?

 

How do you manage all the different businesses and ventures?

Wayne

Well, I guess it's just being quite clear on what you're trying to do. So let me start off with the association related, stuff. So obviously internally we build PropTech and we service the real estate industry. And for close to a decade, we've been having conversations and they've gone the same way. We understand internationally that the real estate industry is a slow adopter. And it just made sense to set up a vehicle to just grow the industry because when you speak to landlords, brokers, agents etc, users or PropTech, they are very impressed with what's out there, but didn't really understand how to adopt. So really, what Sean and I set out to do was just to educate first and foremost, and then connect the South African PropTech sector. And when it comes to balance in our space, it's quite simple. We identify our roles and what we have to do, I specifically run our ventures business in iShack, which is pretty much like a tech Portfolio Manager, I look after our investments on that side. And I have a partner, Richard who runs our consultancy, and we are just very clear on our roles and what we have to do. In one PropTech, we've got an EduTech PropTech where we work with education, and that's more like the CSI or corporate social responsibility PropTech. And as long as you're clear on what you're trying to achieve, then I think things fit into place.

 

Louisa

Yes, well that also goes quite well into my next question. And that is, what is the mission of these two associations? has it changed as your community has grown? What's the main focus or the ambition over the next five years?

 

What is the mission of PropTech Africa and PropTech South Africa?

Sean

I think initially we started out wanting to connect the PropTech ecosystem like the different players who often wouldn't cross paths or people didn't realize they were operating in the same area. So it kind of connect them and then raise awareness with the actual property real estate industry and encourage engagement mostly through, the events we would host which were quite successful. And then through raising awareness and connecting everybody, ultimately just grow the sector where we can. And that's what we've stuck to. And it's been pretty successful and we've been well received, we've got some good partnerships and we've done some interesting events. And I think it is evolving a little bit now in line with the maturity of a PropTech sector. So there's a lot more focus on investment now.

 

So what we are trying with our events is to bring in more investors to the PropTech activity. And then also from the PropTech side, guys who are having issues with funding, but also investors are starting to ask questions, so we try to fill that kind of middle middleman and just shed light and be a place where people can come and ask questions etc. So we were always happy to do that. But I think there's a big focus on investment that can spur that next stage of growth and adoption in the sector.

 

Louisa

I want to delve into this a little bit more about what partners, are they more on the landlord side? Is your community more focused around that technology side? And then, what? Obviously, it's been a growth in investment, which is great that it's going into Africa now, is that in specific vertical?

 

Who are your partners in PropTech Africa and PropTech South Africa?

Wayne

So let me I'll just expand on what Sean was saying earlier, and just discuss on the partnership side. So after we set up the South African PropTech Association, and we had a few inspiring events, people coming to us and saying that really meaningful conversations they had, they really enjoyed the content. As we mentioned, we met up with Kevin and really, we realized that we needed to aggregate the content for Africa, just put a spotlight on everything that's happening in Africa, because Africa is really a dynamic continent. And with the opportunity for a leapfrog relating to technology in Africa in general, just relating to new technologies and new requirements, we thought that if we can be in a position to spotlight both PropTech, and real estate players in Africa, then we'll be doing our job in PropTech Africa. So to introduce, we've launched the African PropTech Associations, African PropTech database, and what we doing there is, we've given any PropTech that has its RP situated in Africa, an opportunity to list on this database for free. And we do get quite a lot of inquiries in around for PropTechs around Africa. So that's one area where we've been helping in PropTech Africa.

 

The other area is, and this is relating to partnerships with the different PropTechs around Africa, PropTech Africa has actually got an Android and iOS app, I think we're the only PropTech association that has an app. And what we do is we allow any of the PropTechs around Africa and SA PropTech, the opportunity to load their event on the app, to add their content into the app, and also obviously add their different start-ups which we'll be presenting, etc. So that's just a little bit on what we're doing on that side. And then relating to partnerships, we have been working with a few real estate, let's say funds and players just on nothing that we can release just yet. But we do have a partnership with the African API Summit, so the Africa Property Investment Summit, and they have what's called the PropTech Forum where we assist them with content, assist them with start-ups and anything really to enhance the industry and enhance the spotlight that's put on PropTech in Africa and South Africa.

 

Louisa

God I felt like the UKPA we need to up our game we definitely don't have anything like an app, we call WhatsApp group for our members which is really basic but I guess it works!

 

Sean

I think a WhatsApp group you can change the world!

 

Louisa

Yes, one day at a time, one emoji or meme to keep everything going. Okay this is what different audience wants to hear about, different trends going on in the world. Obviously have mentioned the shift as more investment going into Africa, talking about technology companies, where do you see the most growth? In Europe everyone’s saying the ESG side, that's been a major growth there and ConTech as well. We saw lots of tenant engagement in technology companies coming out of the US, what have you guys seen in South Africa or Sub-Saharan Africa?

 

What growth in PropTech is there is South Africa and Sub-Saharan South Africa?

Sean

Let me jump in then I'll hand over to Wayne. Yes, I was going to mention ESG actually. So in line obviously, with what's happening in Europe and other countries, it's a massive trend and also like requirement that's growing more and more. So, across the economy in South Africa, you are seeing activity and also a requirement starting to come in like that in Europe. So within PropTech, I think there isn't an immediate activity now, although we do have some interesting platforms playing in the monitoring reporting, measuring area with the ESGS, particularly on environmental side. But I think it's an area where we'll see a lot more activity going forward. Especially in a country with, we have in South Africa electricity supply issues, and we've had droughts etc. So a lot of opportunity there.

 

And then just generally speaking, I think it's in line with a lot of markets where there's decent adoption of PropTech, there's a lot of activity in the sales and letting area transactions. Probably mostly in residential, because there's really high volumes there, sales and lettings but also more so in increasingly so in the commercial side. So we see a lot there in the transaction side and then also on the property management, smart building side, which I think is fairly common in a lot of markets. So like you mentioned, within property management, there's tenant’s engagements, property inspections, more specific things like that. So we see a lot of that happening. And then in Africa, in general that also applies. And then specifically, there's some interesting hybrid platforms around affordable housing. So you'll have the construction tech side, new quick, affordable construction methods. But there's also really interesting platforms that help with funding, we actually help with community engagements to help communities empower themselves and deliver housing, etc. So that's a big thing in Africa, so we see quite a lot of that.

 

Louisa

I think it's like a global thing which everyone's trying to address. I just did a recent webinar with a few US big developers and the Metaprop team on how do you address for affordable housing, and like you said, it’s community engagement and empowerment, and employment and all these things comes down to it, it's not just how you put up a building and making it a lot more economical. There's so many factors that come into it and so some really interesting technologies that come into it. And I think everyone never thought that technology can really help out with that. But it's like little apps about getting the people to speak, which are a bit better than WhatsApp like we just spoke about! Wayne, is there anything else you'd like to expand on with what Sean just mentioned?

 

Wayne

I think Sean was pretty comprehensive, I would just put out there that the African venture capital scene is still immature compared to places like obviously the US, Israel, let's say UK. But the interest in venture capital as a segment, and then also PropTech as a segment in venture capital has significantly grown. And there's a lot of interest, we've seen a lot more seed and angel investment into PropTechs. And we have noticed, because of the nature where we sit, that there are people looking at setting up funds for PropTech, specifically in South Africa or into Africa. So it's still early days, but it's really good to just see lots of activity and lots of interests going down.

 

Louisa

So, there's a few of associations popping up in Africa, I've seen there's getting more traction of investment. Are there any success stories in terms of tech companies you've seen in South Africa or Africa in general in any of the verticals you want to talk about?

 

Wayne

Well, just an example. There's one company called Payprop, that's done really well. It's payments relating to rentals and other areas. I guess they've expanded but they started out I believe in South Africa. Now they are headquartered in Switzerland and they've had some success. There's definitely been a few success stories, but I believe that the real success stories are still on the way in Africa and in South Africa.

 

Louisa

Yes, well it's the space to watch out for I think. Lots of people try and draw comparisons of what's happening in the US, but I’d say the US is about five years ahead of the UK, and then about seven years ahead of Europe, and you have APAC coming in hot as well. So do you guys have any future predictions of where you see your association going or ambitions of how you want to grow your community?

 

What future growth do you see PropTech Africa and South Africa?

Sean

Yes, I think I touched on earlier, there's a lot more need and opportunity around investments, I guess raising awareness and probably facilitating investment, just shedding light on the continents and the regions, because it's very diverse, obviously.  Some trends apply to sub–Saharan Africa in general, but the countries are very diverse and have their own inefficiencies and challenges in their markets. I think that's a big thing is to kind of educate and shed light. Especially on the other successes, the opportunities, because there are some companies that have done quite well, and they are solving their local challenges, like in a local way which is really, really cool. But you're going forward, I guess, you'd just like to see more formalization. It's really encouraging, just on the event space, because like Wayne mentioned, our big partners API events, they run the biggest real estate conferences across the continent. And then they started with the Africa PropTech forum about two years ago or so. So that growing maturity and activity is really encouraging. So now there's a specific conference and in Wayne said, the VCs are coming.

 

So I think it's moving in the right direction, you see all the regions, US as leading, then UK is a bit behind that. And I suppose we're a couple of years, probably behind the UK itself is where we sit. So yes, I think going forward is the investments the big thing, because out here ideas have proven successes, but then investments need to kind of to the next level.

 

Louisa

I guess you can't really also draw comparisons, like to think about big the UK and think of how big Africa is, it's the same with APAC, so many businesses in one place. Well, you mentioned some tech hubs earlier as well, say a business is looking to tackle Africa or part of Africa, may come into South Africa, is there good tech talent there? On the software sales side on, or the product engineer side?

 

What technology talent is there in Africa?

Wayne

Well, first of all I'm not sure if people are aware, but in Cape Town, Amazon Web Services was developed, there’s a big office in Cape Town in South Africa. And Amazon Web Services is a disruptive technology, so there's definitely strong tech talent in South Africa and in many parts. I know that Nigeria and Kenya, I can't speak for every African country, but Nigeria and Kenya also has strong resources on that side. The problem that South Africa has from a tech talent point of view is that, is that the top talents that come out of university, they generally go to the big banks, maybe to AWS, and to a few others that are able to afford them. And then what happens is that historically, it has changed a bit recently, but they haven't been as much of a talent pool for the smaller companies all the time. So what's happened is a lot of South African start-ups, they also look to outsource their development. So we found that there has been outsourcing to other countries around the world. So there definitely is talent, I would say the actual talent pool in South Africa is maybe not as big as it the government or the people would like

 

Sean

There’s such global competition for tech talent. So I think we've got really good talented developers, but like Wayne said, they either get attracted by the other big corporates or perhaps get attracted to opportunities and other countries even remotely. So it's a tough one and the story is increasing, in terms of talents in like East and West Africa, it's really encouraging.

And also the particularly the FinTech in terms of trends and analysis are always a good indicator. And FinTech across Africa has been really successful, ad in Kenya, they have the M-Pesa mobile money platform, which has been massively successful, that's always my favourite example. So, obviously those have come out of somewhere and it is a solid tech ecosystem with good talent. But yes, there are challenges, I met a Canadian recruiter in Cape Town actually and he said he set up shop in SA purely to just go to source and scout talent for Canada, because apparently Canada all the skilled guys who come out of university end up in America unsurprisingly. So there is a skills shortage, which I think a lot of countries can relate to, especially when there's these big players. But yes, really cool that Amazon has a good presence in Cape Town, and cementing that, they are actually building like an African HQ that was just announced a few months ago. So they're going to have quite a quite a big office and, obviously, there'll be a lot of demand for skills there. So that's, that's encouraging.

 

Louisa

Yes. And hopefully lots of people want to work for Amazon, the career pathway then can be pretty expansive. And we're coming to the end of the podcast guys, but we've got our final part left, which is the LMRE part. So the L is touch on the main lessons you've learned throughout your career, the M is give a mention to anyone or product or service or shout out. R is do you have any regrets in your career or maybe something you just haven't done yet? And E is what are you most excited about with the feature of PropTech? So let's start with the main lesson you've learnt?

 

Lessons learned in your career in African PropTech? 

Sean

It's like play to your strengths. When I started out in corporate and it was a really good experience, I got to work for a few quite diverse companies, some of them quite big, that was a great experience. But it was never quite the right fit for me because you how do you juggle having all these different things, that's something I've always really enjoyed. And I like to have my focus on different things and things that give you different learning opportunities and give you a different buzz. So that didn't quite click well with some of my corporate jobs, because you're supposed to stay in your lane and obviously focus on your job, but I was always interested in what other teams were doing and stuff. So yes, I guess play to your strengths and make those changes and moves if you need to. And take the opportunities when they come along.

Louisa

And mention anyone or product or service?

 

Special mentions in African PropTech?

So I guess there's quite a lot. We've worked with some really good partners, so we've mentioned API events. We signed an MOU with PropTech Japan, they've been quite good. PropTech For Good out of Europe. And then just some of the start-ups and people that have helped us and supported us and also me in my business like Palesa Moloi from Parkupp, which is like a parking platform, she's been quite helpful. I think all advisors actually, we've got a good really good team of people who joined associations. So yes, big shout out to them because it can be a challenge running a kind of an association, it’s purely voluntary based. So big shout out to them.

 

Louisa

Awesome. Thank you for that, okay, any regrets or things that you wish you had done? Anything you regret not doing?

 

Sean

I don't know. Like maybe I'm still in the process, because it's four years, 2017 I founded my business and I've kind of been independent from 2017. So it's still early days, I don't regret leaving corporates, you got to look at the positive because the challenging sometimes wasn't there, but I guess I'm pretty happy with the way things have gone. The catch 22 with having a few things in your portfolio, it can be really enriching and exciting, but at times it's perhaps the regrets are not balancing the focus. Especially between voluntary and business in learning that so, perhaps like not a massive regret, but definitely something to be aware of, giving the focus where you need to.

 

Louisa

Okay and last one, what are you most excited about the future of PropTech? And let's have a focus around Africa.

 

Sean

Yes, sure. I think around ESG, a big thing for me is the social aspects, those sustainable development goals. There's just a lot, we are a very unequal society and there's a lot of poverty in Africa. And I'm really excited for the kind of potential that PropTech has, to give people access first of all, There are barriers to entry for ownership and investments, for owning your home or renting a decent home. So there's a lot of ground and opportunity in that way. So housing, environmental development, but I think just within the property markets, if you if you kind of expand and bring more people in the economy into the property sector, it can only benefit everyone. So we'll have focus on where the opportunities are I guess, and it's just going to benefit the overall real estate industries, I think.

 

Louisa

And Wayne, are you ready to give it a go and start the lessons learnt?

 

Wayne

First of all, I'd say main lesson, that you need to be quite clear, they say like youth is wasted on the young, right? So try empathize with when you are old and grey or into the future, and you’ve got to set you sail with what you want. And then in life, things happen, it doesn't matter if you get things right and you get them wrong, it just matters that you continue. And especially for times like now. a big thing be quote or that are focused on, in good and in bad times this time, too shall pass. So even with everything going on with COVID, you just got to keep your head down. You've got to be tenacious and continue.

 

Louisa

Yes, I like that. Did you want to give a shout out today?

 

Wayne

Well, I guess because I'm drinking, so one of our start-ups, one of our businesses SmartBuilding, I think that's an easy one. But also just in alignment with Sean, I want to thank Sarah, Marco, Patrick, Jonathan, obviously, Kevin, our co-founder, our interns that are assisting us. I hope I'm not leaving anyone else out. But they really have added a lot of value to what we're doing and they've really helped us scale just our exposure. So thank you to them really

 

Louisa

Awesome. Right now for regrets?

 

Wayne

Well I don't necessarily believe in regrets, I believe you do things wrong and you should learn something. If you don't learn, I would say you should regret. But I'll give an example of something I did learn, people talk about our ROE, return on equity. ROE to me means return on efforts. Years ago, I did a music related PropTech for my sins, this was in about 2005 or so. And that was a really difficult the industry, difficult work, and we actually took a lot more time than we should have. So that's where I learned about ROE, return on effort. And whenever I look at an opportunity now I say, well, how much time is involved and what do I estimate or predict the return to be?

 

Louisa

Okay, and the last one, which is excited about?

 

Wayne

I'm super excited, I'll tell you where we've been at, there's been a lot of interest in technology or PropTech, but I've never seen in South African Africa as much interested in PropTech. Also, it's not just interest at the moment, especially in South Africa. South Africa has had a few hard knocks in the economy, and what's happening now is the property players are consolidating, but PropTech is big on their agenda. So really, what excites me just in general about technology is the efficiencies that are possible. For instance, in our smart coding platform, we do a whole bunch of utility reading. So the water, the electrical, just by giving that feedback to our clients, already we see a lot of efficiencies pop up for them. And the beauty of that is, once you are collecting a lot of data, you do get the opportunity for machine learning and bringing in other interesting new technologies to make the life of PropTech players or real estate players easier. So I'm just excited generally for the industry and the actual adoption that's ahead of us because we really are seeing an increase in interest in adoption.

 

Louisa

Yes, awesome. Well, thank you so much and thank you both for talking as for your journey, the growth of the market in Africa, a space which see lots of people don't know too much about yet. But it's good to hear all the growth that's happening. Unfortunately we have come to the end of the show, but thank you both for joining me and I look forward catching up you after the show. Thank you for joining us this week on the podcast and a big thanks to our guests and our sponsors CREtech and Reimtech. Make sure you visit our website www.lmre.tech where you can subscribe to our newsletter, keep up with our industry news and events or if you’re looking for your next career move it’s all on there. 

Louisa

Thank you for joining us this week on the podcast and a big thanks to our guests and our sponsors CREtech and Reimtech. Make sure you visit our website www.lmre.tech where you can subscribe to our newsletter, keep up with our industry news and events or if you’re looking for your next career move it’s all on there. The Propcast can be found on iTunes, Spotify and YouTube where all good content is found. Whilst you're at it, if you found value in the show, we'd appreciate if you could spread the word and tell and friend about it or even write us a review, and I’ll catch you next week.

 

 

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